Does the objectively best pizza exist? One pizza maker strives to create it
Big interview with Sean from A Slice of New York about his pizza journey to make the best pizza
Hi there!
This week I bring you a pretty cool interview with Sean Jefairjian of the pizzeria A Slice of New York Pizza. Sean has been making pizza in an official capacity for two years. He still refers to his business as a “hobby on steroids” and isn’t sure if he’ll truly make a go of it, but he’s an explorer in search of the perfect pie. Does it really exist? Some pizza makers don’t believe in fables like the “perfect pizza.” But Sean does.
If you have faith that the objectively best pizza exist, you have a perfectly crystal clear mission ahead of you: make the best pizza. It’s enough of a vision to keep you experimenting with dough, technique and refining your pizza day after day. Without that faith maybe you’d lose steam. Don’t we all need to know our mission?
I was scrolling Instagram when I saw this post from Sean. In it he celebrates his second anniversary helming the Slice of New York Pizza ship. This quote caught my eye: I’ll be honest, when we first opened our pizzas sucked. I mean they were great, but in comparison to what they are today they sucked.
What a statement! How many pizza shops admit that their pizza was not good? May as well log onto Yelp and give yourself a one star review. I had to know more.
I reached out to Sean and we chatted about his philosophy. His pursuit of the perfect pizza, the gadgets he employs to manage the million tiny variables that shape a pizza, and his rubric. Here we go:
Interview with Sean of Slice of New York Pizza
Dan: I saw your Instagram post. Tell me about your pursuit of the best pizza. Where do you hope this takes you? What are you even chasing?
Sean: What I’ve learned is that good pizza is NOT subjective. It’s completely objective. If you follow the proper ways of doing things it’s near impossible to make bad pizza. I use a set of rubrics. I remove all subjectivity from the equation. Follow the rubric. I’m paying attention to things like humidity and using an evaporative cooler, it changes the dough recipe. It helps to control the humidity.
Dan: Humidity is one of the variables you’re controlling for? How does it impact the pizza making? You need to adjust the dough, temperature?
Sean: There’s a humidity equation I follow, there’s a sweet spot of the humidity. I like it to be around 55 and 65% humidity in the pizza shop. If there’s not, there’s an equation I use to make changes to the dough. This can mean a change in the amount of water in the dough or the temperature of the water. Everything needs to be in an even playing field, even the flour temperature comes into play. The friction from the mixer can make the dough hotter.
There are so many variables that people don’t think of, but that’s what sets us apart. We use the best shit. And we pay closer attention to the minute details that most people don’t.
How are you controlling every Variable
Dan: Controlling every variable sounds like a tall order. What is the end game of that? There’s a place in NYC, Scar’s, where the guy mills his flour. Well he used to, now he mills some of it. But is that where you see yourself going to control every detail?
Sean: Sourcing was the hardest part, especially for me. Pittsburgh is very specific to me in the style of pizza and what it is. I’m probably the smallest pizza shop account for Penn Mac, when I need the weird stuff I can’t get locally, Penn Mac will get them. I’m one of two or three pizzerias in the area that use Bianco di Napoli tomatoes. They taste like an Italian tomato. The things I found out about San Marzano tomato, I was so soured. I will never use another one in my life.
Same with Italian flours, won’t go near an Italian flours. I use the Sir Lancelot. I like King Arthur for its quality and even though it’s a large company, it’s a 100% employee owned company. Even if you’re the lowest person on the totem pole there’s a level of ownership that someone has. And that person cares way more about the product than someone somewhere else who doesn't own part of that company.
Dan: Your sourcing improved, you started paying attention to more of your ingredients. Where do you think your pizza made the biggest jump?
Sean: It was between October of 2021 to March 2022, what happened in October is that one of my childhood best friends, his childhood best friends is ranked one of #1 pizza in the United States. He put out a book, the Joy of Pizza, in this book was this rubric. I had a line to the author because of my childhood best friend. I could text him to ask about my dough. His name is Dan Richer and owns Razza in Jersey City.
I literally have the book in my hand, I don’t put the book down ever. I’m like a high school football player who holds the football in the hallways between classes.
Dan: So what has this book taught you?
Sean: Now I’m really taking things to a much more macro level. I was always making good pizza, even the pizza that sucked was better. But before I wasn’t look at the temperature of the air, I wasn’t checking humidity. I wasn’t using dough starter consistently. I use a dough starter, I wasn’t using it consistently. It wasn’t a priority, but now it is. When I started it, it wasn’t to make money it was to make great pizza. Now I’m all the way down the rabbit hole.
What is the ROI on making the best pizza
Dan: There’s almost an unlimited amount of variables to control for. You’re going down this rabbit hole, what is the payoff? Do your customers realize and appreciate what you’re doing? I’ve talked to other pizza makers about this and somedays it’s like “Why am I killing myself to make these small changes that no one notices.”
Sean: For me it’s all about educating myself, I do take the time to educate the customer. I’m the only pizza shop in the history of Pittsburgh that shows all my ingredients to a visitor. I leave them in the front of the store so when they walk in they see the cheese, flour. I’m always talking about quality, so over time there will be an ROI on that. If I start to focus on ROI I’ll lose myself.
I don’t even call what I do a business. It’s a hobby on steroids. I haven’t decided yet to make it a real a business. I’m still on this constant quest for perfection. There’s still so man things I’m not doing that I could be doing.
Where does your pizza journey go from here
Dan: Where does this go? Do you keep doing this until you stop doing this?
Sean: Because of my pizza a lot of people have been outed.
Dan: You’re outing other pizzerias? Like bad pizza shops?
Sean: It’s people coming to me and then knowing “I didn’t realize I was eating shitty pizza, now I understand it a little better.” People with gluten sensitivity, people that are gluten sensitivity, most of them are not gluten sensivity, they are allergic to under fermented pizza. I have had a dozen people come in with gastro problems and not have an issue with our pizza. Even our Sicilian it’s light and airy. You’re gonna feel full. But you’re not gonna feel ill.
Dan: Right, good pizza is meant to be digestible. It doesn’t make you feel like garbage.
Sean: If I go into a pizza shop and see a conveyor belt I’m out. That’s you saying you don’t give a shit.
I’d like to say that I hope, I’ve made some enemies, but I also made some friends. I really hope that one guy that owns one pizza shop takes their pizza a little more serious because of me. That would mean the world to me. Somebody else understands what I’m doing and they try to make their pizza a little better. It starts one person at a time. That was Josh for me at Rockaway Pizza. Josh was the first person in Pittsburgh, the pioneer of good NY pizza in this area. It’s the most communal thing and the most divisive.
Dan: That community, there’s going to be some feuds. I know there’s some pizza shops that are jealous of others, mostly from not being included in certain lists or getting the right shout outs.
Sean: I wish I was on that post-gazette list. Hal did a great list and he did it well.
I’m gonna work harder and make it better than it was yesterday. I had a ton of friends included so I’m super happy. I’m sure in the future I’ll get my love from them. That’s what pushes me - not money, OK, I’m not there yet. I’m not ready. What do I need to do to get ready and get on that radar.
Dan: One variable at a time. Any last comments?
Sean: Yeah I’ll leave you with a pizza tip that no one is talking about: Yellow Bridge Brewery as the best pizza no one is talking about.
Well what a week for pizza! I hope you’re safely venturing out and eating pizza to your hearts content. If you liked this newsletter please consider sharing it, it would mean the world to me.
Thanks and pizza ya later!
-Dan Tallarico, Pizza Journalist